Looking for accommodation

[bensoncooroy]

There is a lady by the name of Barbara moving around the valley looking for accomodation for dam builders or should I say proposed dam builders.
I am told people have been asked to move out of their rented houses by Christmas!
They obviously are very confident about getting the go ahead from Canberra and as we know they are telling everyone that it will be built.

[westholme]

This may be a bit controversial to say, and though it's not going to win friends or influence people it's how I feel and I kinda think that's what the forum is for, getting out our feelings, even if they aren't always uplifting.
I believe that the QLD Gov & QWI wouldn't be building all those roads around the wall site and failing to renew peoples leases unless Rudd 747 and Garrett hadn't already given them a back door green light.

It is also my belief that this back door arrangement was explained in the following manner by Rudd (or as he's called in our house..Dennis the Menace)
"I think we all know that the EPBC Act does not stop projects of this nature, it is an Act which allows projects of this nature to proceed with conditions that make it look like environmental issues are mitigated. It is safe to say that even if Mr Garrett doesn't agree with this dam project, there is nothing he can do about it because there is no legislation or law in Australia that can stop large projects dead in their tracks. There are only laws that can make you, Anna, spend a lot more money implementing mitigation measures.
You and I both know that an EIS is simply a device governments use to gauge more closely what needs to be mitigated in order to appease the public and the green groups.
You write an EIS. The public, green groups and scientists then do the homework for you by providing submissions which serve primarily as worse case scenario receptors. This then allows you to fine tune any flaws in the draft's mitigation measures and also gives you insight into environmental impacts you may have missed in the draft EIS. Which in turn let's the Government fine tune the MNES sections so the DEW has plenty of fodder for drawing up lists of mitigation measures. Big EIS, lots of submissions showing us how to present a hole proof case for conditional approval. So, sure, we won't stop you, go ahead, start your preliminary works."

What I can't understand is that all these groups against the dam, including local, state and federal pollies and environmental groups, and no-one has publicly taken Garrett to task for allowing QWI to build roads and plant trees in a study area that is supposed to be protected by this referral process until final approval.

Who told QWI & the QLD Gov that their roads won't impact on MNES? If their roads won't impact on MNES then that is a decision that is made only by the FEDS once the dam is given final approval. It is a referred project. The entire area. What they're doing is illegal in my book and no-one is making a big public todo about it, least of all at a Federal level.

I was under the impression that it is only up to Garrett to decide whether dam works will effect MNES and seeing as the EIS hasn't gone to Garrett yet nor has the project been given approval then it appears that the QLD Gov have already decided on their own which operations won't affect MNES. Isn't it Garrett's job to tell the QLD Gov whether their road building etc.. will effect MNES? Can they move on these small projects without these works being given formal investigation and approval by the FEDS?

When I saw those roads being built and no-one doing anything about it, it kinda made me think 'stuff it' I give up.
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CESARE LOMBROSO "The ignorant man always adores what he cannot understand"

[Gally]

come along to the Kandanga 1000 and we'll cheer you up a bit.
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"MARY RIVER FOREVER"

[arawajo]

I agree with you Westholme.
And I keep wondering how does having an information stall or knitting a scarf or riding lots of horses, (no offence ment Gally), stop the roads and land clearing and dam preparation? What are we actually doing about it?
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When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes obligation" - Steve Biko

[Darren E]

Here is a different perspective on why QWIPL are still pushing ahead “all systems go” with their haul roads (oops “access roads”), lease cancellations, etc.

They are still playing Psych Warfare 101 – and they cream their pants thinking about making people in the Mary Valley say “stuff it I give up.” Unless you enjoy the image of Graeme Newton furiously masterbating during his daily perusal of this forum, please try to avoid giving him the bloody satisfaction.

The alternative theory that has been bouncing around the E household for the past couple of weeks is that:

The dam has already been cancelled – they just haven’t told Graeme Newton yet.

Think about it – until the cancellation of the dam is officially announced in parliament, QWIPL is legally obliged (through the amendments to the Water Act) to continue doing whatever it takes to build the dam. But Anna Bligh is in election mode for March 2009 – the public announcement has to be fine-tuned for political expediency. In that context, what is a few extra million dollars and a bit more pain for a non-Labor-voting community?

Am I dreaming? Maybe. But ask yourself the same question that they must have been struggling with on George Street for months: How the hell are they going to pay for it (the dam)?

The state government is up to its eyeballs in debt. The intended financial vehicle (B&B) is stuffed – B&B will be bankrupt as soon as their last dunny roll runs out. And Anna would be lucky to get any of the big banks to lend her lunch money right now.

And although Denis the Menace / The Milky-Bar Kid might be Anna's little wet rag, the assessors in the federal DEW&H are far from stupid - they know exactly what is going on here and what is at stake - and so does Mr Garrett.

So keep your chins up. And remember – the public face of the STMRCG might be all about info stalls and horse rides and rallies and kayak trips – but rest assured that behind the scenes, everything that can be done, is being done. It’s just that for reasons I’m sure you’ll appreciate, most of it can’t be discussed in online forums. (And after all, I'm told Anna and Graeme love surprises ).
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"If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything" - anon.
"There can be no liberty for a community which lacks the means by which to detect lies" - Walter Lippman

[westholme]

That's cool, if I hadn't said what I said Newton would still find something somewhere that someone else said in order to fulfil his daily 'needs'. If he wants to fulfil them at my expense, well, good on him, small things amuse small minds. Every now and then we all need to speak out about our deepest thoughts, whether that is PC or not. Sorry to my comrades who are offended but surely you can't be angry with a fellow anti dammer just because they have a different view about potential signs that the Feds have already given behind the scenes permission. I will always be against this dam, and I will always fight it in the ways I feel are appropriate for me and for my style of personality.
I must say, I totally agree with arawajo. Why expend energy protesting outside businesses or protesting on horseback (likewise to what arawajo said...sorry Gally...I know you were only trying to help) or holding a scarf in a circle, (or for some people, turning on locals and writing offensive remarks on the road outside their homes and businesses - that contributed to me feeling a sense of stuff it...kinda wish there had've been a public dismissal of that kind of behaviour from people on our side but there never was that I saw) and yet out here at the dam site no-one is protesting the construction of dam works. Mind you, the opportunity to protest there has probably passed as the heavy machinery is already on site and working day in day out to get their roads finished. I know, I see it every day from my veranda and it breaks my heart.....and, yes (are you ready Greame Newton) it breaks my spirit too.
To me, the Kandanga 1000 and similar gatherings are for community fighting spirit, to keep people united and uplifted. There is a place for that too, people need that shot in the arm, but it is more about keeping up our spirits and less about standing up against the man for trying to build a dam on the Mary River right under our noses.
Where was the protest to stop that heavy machinery from accessing those properties? Isn't that the public face of the fight too? Actual protesters trying to interfere with construction happening pre-approval?

Isn't it more news worthy and wouldn't it have gotten more heads turned at the right levels to hear stories of people trying to block machinery from entering a property to do 'site works'? Wouldn't that have made people stand up and say, "hang about, why are there dozers and graders entering these properties? Don't they have to wait to see if any dam construction actions impact MNES? And isn't it only Garrett that can do that?"

Some people say they will happily chain themselves to a dozer if the dam is approved, but if it's approved all that will get you is the attention of people who feel sorry for us for losing the fight. And it will also show that some protesters will go down fighting. I admire people who will do that, they are more noble than I as I've never been a fan of being chained up (sorry Greame Newton if that's what you were starting to envisage).

I understand what factors could come into play in the days to come regarding financial institutions and infrastructure companies, but when your horse breaks down, you put it out of it's misery, bury it with a bobcat and buy another.
I think the QLD Gov can absorb these kinds of hits.
I also understand that there are secret STMRG things that can't be spoken about on the public forum. But I also understand that there are MNES affected over on those properties (such as endangered flora and fauna and biodiversity issues) and they should never have been able to enter and start to impact on those MNES matters without a stiff stick across their bumbling arses. They purchased those properties for this dam, this dam is a referred project anything they do on those properties is classed as a controlled action.....therefore...illegal. And in my view, not protected under the SD&PW Act or the Water Act 2000.
Sorry to tread on toes...I's jus' gotta say something or it's gunna eat me up inside.
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CESARE LOMBROSO "The ignorant man always adores what he cannot understand"

[Darren E]

No worries Westholme. I wasn't offended at all - much better to get these things off your chest rather than bottling them up. I was just trying to give your morale a friendly shot in the arm.

I agree with your comments about the pre-construction work and it's impact on MNES. Peter Garrett's office has stated several times that the Minister cannot make any judgment on the MNES under the EPBC Act until the EIS is formally submitted to Canberra. So by definition there is no judgment on which parts of the project might impact on MNES and which parts might not. They are all part of the same "controlled action" and therefore starting work ahead of federal approval would appear to be a clear breach of the EPBC Act.

We should be writing to Canberra about this. Your comments form the basis of a very good letter.
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"If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything" - anon.
"There can be no liberty for a community which lacks the means by which to detect lies" - Walter Lippman

[Darren E]

Westholme,
Just in!!

Malcolm Turnbull is being interviewed on ABC Coast FM this afternoon. The ad says "just after 5pm" and the lady I spoke to on the phone said it would be about 5.15pm.

They are taking calls to ask the Federal opposition leader questions from the public.

They're also accepting questions on their website. Here's a chance to ask him if the opposition intends to take Garrett to task for allowing the Qld Govt to begin construction without federal EPBC approval.

Go to this address and then click on "comments" to leave a question.

http://blogs.abc.net.au/queensland/sunshine_cooloola_coast_drive/index.html
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"If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything" - anon.
"There can be no liberty for a community which lacks the means by which to detect lies" - Walter Lippman

[westholme]

What a shame he was late and didn't have time to answer too many questions in detail. I thought his answers to the first question by Steve were excellent, though he did dodge the Environment Minister question a bit.
It was also a shame that they condensed your question Darren and then, the greatest shame of all?...that he palmed the question off saying it should be answered by the Shadow Environment Minister not him. He used to be the Environment Minister, he knows how the EPBC Act works. I can understand why he might say "without seeing these alleged pre-construction works I can't really pass an opinion", but I would at least expect him to relate how the Act works and whether or not a proponent can do any dam related activities before approval.
All and all though, ol' Turnbull did very well. And it was good of him to say that it would be very, very bad if Garrett has let some things slip through.
It is up to those with the contacts at a federal level now, to apply pressure to have Garrett publicly step up and explain why the tree plantation went in, why the clearing was done, why bonfires have been lit and houses demolished, and why the haulage roads have gone in.
Even their burning of rubbish (and burning of demolished houses & dealing with septics) can effect MNES and only Garrett has the power to say they can or can't do it (and he can only give that permission if the dam is approved).
At some stage the public needs to be given a break from being the momentum for everything, for having to do all the letter writing. Now is the time for the big wigs who know their stuff and have the contacts in parliament and media to prove they are worth their salt and have Garrett taken to task for us.

Well done for getting onto that so quickly and getting those questions in. The next Federal election lead up is going to be very interesting. A pity it's so far away and Rudd will feel too safe to get the jitters about suspect project approvals.
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CESARE LOMBROSO "The ignorant man always adores what he cannot understand"

[arawajo]

After the protest at the dam site the other week we had no trouble accessing the site of the proposed dam wall. What we need is a 24/7 presence there. Who will be in? PM me.
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When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes obligation" - Steve Biko

[Darren E]

Yeah, westholme, I was pretty pleased all up. It was a shame that Mr Turnbull's late arrival meant that the interview had to be cut so short, but it was good that the TCD was the highlighted topic and didn't get cut. In the lead-up Katrina Davidson kept saying "we've got plenty of questions on Traveston Dam - feel free to ask about other topics too" but guess what? No-one did.

MT spoke pretty well on the topic when you consider that he's spent all day at various press conferences, mainly prepped to talk about the US economy and it's effects Down Under. I thought it was reasonable that he referred my Q to Greg Hunt - and I think there is a good chance now that the Shadow Environment Minister will follow up on this issue.

I've posted a transcript at http://travestonswamp.info/forum/viewtopic.php?p=14138#14138
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"If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything" - anon.
"There can be no liberty for a community which lacks the means by which to detect lies" - Walter Lippman