Tarong Power stealing water from Wivenhoe Dam

[stevem]

Breaking News: ABC 3PM News 14/7/06

Dorothy Pratt the Independent from Nanango has accused the Minister for Energy, John Mickel, of lying about Tarong Energy stealing water from Wivenhoe Dam despite a directive issued in February that stopped the company from using the water. The Minister claimed he did not know until last week that the power station was still using the water from Wivenhoe Dam.

[stevem]

26 Estimates Committee D—Energy and Aboriginal & Torres Strait Islander Policy 14 Jul 2006


CHAIR: The time for government questions has expired. I call the member for Nanango.

Mrs PRATT: Minister, in your answer to non-government question on notice No. 10, which in part refers to another question that was asked in the House, you have inferred that water from Wivenhoe Dam is being utilised or has been used by Tarong Power Station since the directive was issued by you and the Deputy Premier for them not to use anything other than the Boondooma water supply. Minister, do you stand by that statement? As it is common knowledge from workers and others that water other than the Boondooma supply has been used since that directive was given by Tarong Power Station, where is that water coming from? Is it being supplied by Tarong North?

Mr MICKEL: Can I just have the top part of your question again?

Mrs PRATT: In your answer to non-government question on notice No. 10, which refers to other questions which I asked of you in the House, it is stated that no water from Wivenhoe Dam is being or has been used by Tarong Power Station since the directive was issued by you and the Deputy Premier and that they were to only use the Boondooma water supply. Do you stand by that statement? As it is common knowledge by the workers and others in the area—

Mr MICKEL: I am sorry, I think you are completely misquoting me. I do not know that I have said that.

Mrs PRATT: I have them here, Minister—the whole lot.

Mr MICKEL: Would you mind if I had a look at the answer, because I am sure I did not say that. Which question are you referring to—the one you asked of this committee or—

Mrs PRATT: Of this committee, I asked here in non-government questions in which you referred to question No. 1036.

Mr MICKEL: Can I just check to see what I said? My recollection is that I did not say that, but just want to double-check.

Mrs PRATT: It infers that no water is being used—

Mr MICKEL: No, no, you said I said it.

Mrs PRATT: No, I did not. I have it written here ‘inferred’ and you can check Hansard.

Mr MICKEL: It reads—
Firstly, I would like to point out ...
...
I am advised that power station water supply and consumption varies in proportion to the amount ...
In regard to annual water usage, I refer you to my answer ...
Tarong North ... are commercial entities ... I am advised given commercial-in-confidence considerations, the costs associated with
water supply cannot be publicly disclosed ...
That is in answer to a question with regard to Tarong Power Station and Tarong North water
usage.

Mrs PRATT: Question number?

Mr MICKEL: Where did I infer anything? You attributed comments to me—

Mrs PRATT: In a question without notice that no directive has been changed, that Tarong Power Station cannot—

Mr MICKEL: This is the question you asked me in the House?

Mrs PRATT: Which has been referred to, yes, in your questions which I have asked you today.

Mr MICKEL: Yes, but you then put words in my mouth that are not correct, I am sorry. You then said that I inferred something. I had not inferred anything. Your question in the House—and I am going off memory here—asked if I had issued another redirection. That is what you asked me in the House.
Mrs PRATT: Yes.

Mr MICKEL: And I said—

Mrs PRATT: And the direction was that they do not use water from Wivenhoe.

Mr MICKEL: I am sorry about this, but your question in the House asked whether I had issued another direction. If you look at it—I am going off memory; I would like to see the question.

Mrs PRATT: Minister, I will accept that. I will ask another question with regard to that.

Mr MICKEL: I think if you are going to put words in my mouth at least please be accurate about it.

Mrs PRATT: I was accurate.

Mr MICKEL: Well, you were not accurate.

Mrs PRATT: With regard to the use of Wivenhoe water since the directive was given by you and the Deputy Premier, has Tarong Power Station been using any Wivenhoe water?

Mr MICKEL: I will answer it in this way. There was a direction issued under section 124 of the Government Owned Corporations Act 1993. It required that from 1 March Tarong Energy Corporation Ltd cease sourcing water from the Wivenhoe for the purpose of providing water for use in the Tarong Power Station. The direction specifically stated that it did not apply, as I understand it, to water sourced from Wivenhoe Dam by Tarong Energy for the purpose of providing water for use in the Tarong North Power Station. I am advised that Tarong Energy has complied with the spirit and achieved the intended effect of the direction. However, it advised my department in mid-June that it had become aware of technical issues which may be perceived to relate to the water direction. Because of raw water quality problems including the level of dissolved salts in Boondooma Dam and blue-green algae in the Cooling Water Dam, Tarong Energy sources around 800 megalitres per annum from the Wivenhoe for the joint demineralisation facility. This supplies demineralised water for both Tarong and Tarong North power station boilers and small amounts of potable drinking water for general consumption at the Meandu Mine. Whilst this is only approximately two per cent of the total water requirements of the two power stations, Tarong Energy sought to comply with the spirit of the original direction. It more than compensated for the proportion of water it drew for its Tarong station power auxiliary needs by drawing the same amount of water from Boondooma Dam instead of from Wivenhoe Dam and applied this for use in the Tarong North Power Station cooling tower. The Deputy Premier and I have written to the chair of Tarong Energy under the requirements of section 124 of the Government Owned Corporations Act 1993 advising that we propose to issue a superseding direction. Tarong Energy has advised that it has no concerns with the draft direction and shareholding ministers will now formally issue the direction. This direction will enable Tarong Energy to source water from Wivenhoe for use in the joint demineralisation plant and for potable water. However, to compensate, Tarong Energy will need to draw an amount of water at least equal to the proportion it would use at Tarong Power Station and Meandu Mine from Boondooma Dam. This equivalent amount of Boondooma Dam water is to be directed to Tarong North Power Station, decreasing its supply requirement from Wivenhoe Dam. The net effect will be that the volume of water drawn from Wivenhoe Dam will not be greater than the amount of water required to operate Tarong North Power Station. To demonstrate the actions that Tarong Energy has taken as of 1 March 2006, Tarong Energy has sourced water solely from Boondooma Dam for use in Tarong Power Station’s cooling towers. This has resulted in a saving of approximately 35 megalitres of water per day not being drawn from Wivenhoe Dam. Approximately 28,000 megalitres per year of cooling tower water for Tarong Power Station will come direct via a pipeline from Boondooma Dam.

Mrs PRATT: Thank you, Minister. That was a really full explanation. I appreciate that, because I would have liked to have that answer a long time ago.

Mr MICKEL: Could I just say this—

Mrs PRATT: Well, the directive has changed, Minister.

Mr MICKEL: The directive changed yesterday. I became aware of the extent of this issue in a full briefing session on Tuesday and noted that it had not complied. I am not about to mislead anybody on 14 Jul 2006 Estimates Committee D—Energy and Aboriginal & Torres Strait Islander Policy 25 anything. You had asked me a series of questions in relation to it, and that is why we issued a redirection on it. I do not take it lightly, either.

Mrs PRATT: Minister, was that directive changed because—

Mr SEENEY: Because of the question you asked on notice.

Mrs PRATT: Yes. Minister, were you aware of an instruction—perhaps that is the best word— issued from both power stations to their staff not to discuss the use of the water being used with the general public and me in particular?

Mr MICKEL: No.

CHAIR: Can I ask the member to refer to the MPS.

Mrs PRATT: It relates to that question on notice.

Mr MICKEL: Can I give a full answer to the redirection. I notice the member for Callide interjected on your question. I will provide a full answer to you because you are entitled to a full answer. I will provide that to you if you like. Your concern is: why has there been a water direction reissued? The original direction was focused on getting very large, immediate water savings for south-east Queensland. The 28,000 megalitres per annum that Tarong Power Station uses in its cooling towers was identified as a stand out priority. Tarong Energy also sources around 800 megalitres per annum from the Wivenhoe Dam for the joint demineralisation facility. I am advised that it is around two per cent of the total water used by the power stations. Because of the focus on the main game the two per cent was not identified, I am told, until after the direction was issued. Demineralised water is required for both Tarong and Tarong North Power Station boilers. Potable drinking water is also required for general consumption, presumably by your constituents and the people who work at the mine. Raw water quality problems, including the level of dissolved salts in Boondooma Dam and bluegreen algae in cooling water dam, prevent their substitution for Wivenhoe water for the demineralization plant and potable water. Inappropriate quality make up water added to the boiler water system may lead, I am advised, to inefficient power plant operation and premature power plant failure. I am told Tarong Energy examined alternative options to Wivenhoe water for the demineralization plant. It has advised that alternative water strategies, such as using Boondooma Dam water only or mixing Boondooma Dam and Wivenhoe Dam water, would require major engineering solutions to address technical and quality issues. Tarong Energy has indicated that while Boondooma Dam water could be connected to the demineralised facility this would halve the throughput of the demineralization process due to the level of dissolved salts. The overall result is that using only Boondooma Dam water would no t allow sufficient demineralised water to run all five generating units. Providing a dual supply of water from both Wivenhoe Dam and Boondooma Dam into the demineralisation facility would require major engineering solutions because of the differential in pressure between the two water sources. Feeding the demineralisation facility directly from the cooling water dam, which contains water from Wivenhoe and small amounts from Boondooma Dam, is another supply option. However, the ongoing problems with blue-green algae in the cooling water dam would require some engineering solutions to make potable water available from the demineralisation facility for on site use.

Mrs PRATT: So what the general public could deduce from the whole thing is that a directive was issued in the first place that they were not to use any Wivenhoe water and that since that day and since I asked the question in the House that directive has been changed—that was yesterday, I think you just said. So at this point in time Tarong Power Station can access Wivenhoe water as little or as much as they deem fit? That is what you just said.

Mr MICKEL: I did not say that at all.

Mrs PRATT: You just read that off that sheet, Minister.

Mr MICKEL: What did I read off the sheet. I read that they will take water for a demineralization facility. I used the term two per cent. Two per cent does not mean as much as they wish, it is two per cent. Let me finish the explanation for the benefit of the honourable member.

Mrs PRATT: It is rubbish.

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Tarong Energy boss loses job over water
July 20 2006

[Rev Watt]

Thanks for sourcing this SteveM.
Sounds like the government is in hot water over this.
Dorothy got Mr Mickel doing quite a 'tap dance'
What do they say, "Power corrupts.."

Throw out the rotten lot I say!
_________________
Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, but whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. John 4:13f

[stevem]

Rev Watt the trancript reads like a script for Yes Minister, hilarious if it wasnt indicative of how this State is being governed.

The amount of potable water being extracted from Brisbanes water supply by the Power staion is a clear and unequivocal reason for using recycled water.

[car2522]

I got half way through the transcript and thought I had switched back to DarrenE's 2 Ronnies thread (Humor). Talk about baffle them with bull...t. Does someone actually vote those wackos into politics? But I guess they must be are the best of a bad lot.
_________________
" Bliar Bliar Pants on Fire. If you were Pinocchio we could use your nose to build the pipeline."

[stevem]

Car2522, very good work with the powerpoint presentation at last nights Gympie meeting

[Pamea]

You need good water to produce electricity & it can only be recycled a few times before it looses its usefulness to produce steam. I would not worry too much about the power house boss loosing his job. My niece's husband is an industrial chemist & has worked at a number of Qld power stations. He had no trouble getting work overseas. There is definatly something wrong in how this state is run
_________________
Raised in S.E.Qld. on small mixed farm with No articulated water.

[stevem]

Pamea, I would appreciate any information you may have regarding the statement, as I am currently researching useful ways and uses for recycled water. How does it loose it's usefulness?

[JeffK]

While I have considerable sympathy for the residents of the Mary Valley in their opposition to the proposed dam, and for others affected, especially the inhumane way the Qld Government has announced and progressed this project to date; I note the media tendency to oversimplify complex issues, including some of the issues referenced above.

At some stage, at least some of the opponents of the dam are going to have to articulate the complex engineering and environmental reasons why it should not go ahead, and the media won't help there, because they are there to sell newspapers/air time and not to allow the truth to get in the way of a good story.

Regards,

Jeff

[stevem]

JeffK, we appreciate your support. You would be quite suprised at the number of intelligent, dedicated and highly qualified people working very hard behind the scenes to achieve exactly as you have advised.

Cheers
Steve

[JeffK]

Yes, I have heard that is the case. And I am glad to see the emotional and spirtual support being offered by the community over there to those who are affected as I think that is at least as important as the political and technical aspects of the issues.

Jeff

[Darren E]

Jeff K, from your profile, perhaps you can answer stevem's question / pamea's statement above?

[stuffthedamthing]

Hi Folks
I would like to talk about water properties. Excuse me if I’m repetitive.
Hopeful will put this business of water recycling (recycled sewerage as the media loves to call it) in the right contest.
Please don’t take it as a lecture or something else.
I'm not a scientist or whatever.
I just love the subject.

By observing its qualities it has solved some of my existential dilemmas.
I found; water is one of the most fascinating substances.
Although, it is relatively common. It’s also a mysterious substance; even the keenest scientist is baffled by it.
Our body and the body of every organic living creature cannot exist without it.
Without it we wouldn’t have a body. (Form)
In every process of our body, water plays a determinant role.
In itself it's completely tasteless, smell-less, colourless, but it can have the taste, smell or colour of whatever is in suspension in it.
We take it for granted, without realizing it is a most amazing and fascinating element.
Most substances can amalgamate with others and in doing so; lose their original identity, by becoming/transforming themselves in to something else.
Ultimately it means; they are in a continuous state of change!
Not so with water. Everything changes around it, but water stays the same.
At some point in time temporarily will change the form, be it solid, liquid or gaseous.
And even then, retains its integrity with its core purely intact.
Water has been recycled since the beginning of time, billions upon billions of times.
What was then it is now.
Water under any circumstances is and will always be pure.
It cannot be corrupted.
Even if corruption is possible, at one point in time, water will become steam for it to become pure again.
If you have in your hand a glass of pure water and add mud to it.
You get “dirty water” but keep in mind it is only an expression!!
In reality…
What you get is mud in suspension or "pure" water with mud in it, the water has remained untouched, because the mud or whatever added cannot penetrate its core!
(If that could be possible it would have long time ago transformed itself in to something else, ending out with something totally different from the original.)
If we remove in a proper manner the mud, excrement or whatever added, you will be left,
With the same product you had before adding stuff to it.
If one gets sick by drinking water, it is because of the impurities in it.
Could be a bacteria or a virus in suspension. But not because of the “water”itself!!
In any case water at its core is always pure.
It is its character.
Was meant to be that way!!
It is extremely important to organic life, without it, life is not possible. That’s why…
It cannot be adulterated by use.
Its quality cannot be destroyed.

If we talk about water quality and its ability to sustain a vibrant life...
(Well… that’s another subject.)
As there is “dead” and “living” water.
The water in a dam or pond is dead water; it does not interact with the air. It becomes stagnant.


In any case; dead or alive. It will still be pure!!

Stevem I have bits of alternative literature about it.
If you wish to have a look, you’re welcome.

An interesting link
http://www.waterflow.net/article2.htm

[stevem]

Thanks stuffthedamthing, water and its use's are I guess on everyones lips right now.

I was interested to know how water could be degraded for use in power stations by being recycled. I could not come up with a logical reason for this to happen.

Water has been naturally recycled since the dawn of time, man I guess is still learning the principles and methods of how to duplicate this process with equal success.

Cheers
Steve